Are you a christian?

Aurom
Top Ten Signs that You're a Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Trinity god.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" -- including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loop-holes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects -- will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet you consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving".

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to prove Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -- but still call yourself a Christian.
Toschy
well... must be a really narrow minded christian großes Grinsen
Tarvoc
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Original von Toschy
well... must be a really narrow minded christian großes Grinsen


Sad to say, but for what I have experienced, there are many of these ones...
Good to see that there also are some Christians that are different from that. smile Gut !
Erik van Thom
I believe it's the same with every kind of explanation that claims to be "total":
Taken literally it will lead to totalitarian societies;
Or it will be interpretated over and over again,
until the original idea is abandoned.
(see Marx and stuff)
Marko_Jadranovic.OP
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10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.

The reason is, that I don't understand, why anyone should adore 5 or 10 little gods out of thousands and not one great God instead of thousands of little gods.


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9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

I really wouldn' t mind to be made of dirt, if God had made me with His own hands and set me into paradise.
But as things are, I rather think that we all descend from 'Adam and Eve' who lived about 150.000 years ago in East Africa, and whome your atheistic forefathers certainly knew all about already at the times of Jesus Christ.


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8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Trinity god.

I just laugh at those atheists and polytheists, who, on one side, keep Trinity for polytheism, but one the other side take part of internet forums by using 3 different nicks - and nevertheless think that they are only one real person.


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7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" -- including women, children, and trees!

I believe that Allah is one of the names of Abrahams God, who led Israel out of Egypt and saved Haggar and Ismael from dying in the desert.
Besides this, I feel that the death of all first-borns in Egypt (wether you take it literally or not) was something so horrible, that man by no means should intend to repeate it.
What is up to you: do you like atrocities?


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6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

I really beg your pardon! I never would have laughed about it if I had known, that you believe in monkeys, bulls and crocodiles!


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5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loop-holes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.

O it's true...
After the Dominican friar S. Albertus Magnus had finished his botanical, geographical, astronomical, mineralogical and zoölogical studies, he found out, that science ist heresy, and forbade us to care any more for things like that.
So we crept back in our paleolithic caves, stopped thinking, and invented fairy-tales.

So did the physicist and astronomer Ruder Boškovic, a Jesuit, who invented atomic fairy-tales.
So did the Augustinian Gregor Mendel with his genetic legends.
So did the priest Georges Lemaître with his stupid old Big-Bang-theory.
And so did many more Christians.

So please, would you tell me a bit of your own discoveries?


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4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects -- will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering.

O dear - I really wasn't aware about that, nore is the Pope. Now I am afraid that we are heretics and will go to hell.


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3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to prove Christianity.

I really didn't know yet, that modern science, history, geology, biology and physics have already proved the inexistence of God! It seems as if these atheistic scientists all hide their exciting discoveries. So would you please tell poor me who they are, so that I could ask them for their secret arguments?

Concerning the idiots rolling on the floor, we use to think first of drugs, consumed by those pseudo-hinduistic idiots, who hope for spitituality and get a 'turkey' instead.


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2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

I am sure of a "success rate" of 100 %. The secret may be, that opposite to materialists I don't ask for money, comfort or a new car.


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1 - You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -- but still call yourself a Christian.

I admit that I'm still learning.
So, Erudite, why don't you teach me more?


@ aurom: Is that all?
Aurom
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Original von Marko_Jadranovic.OP

@ aurom: Is that all?


for the time being...just one more thing...no sweet-talking christian will ever convince me that the ancient torture-instument with that ugly dead body pinned to it is a symbol of divine love...to me it´s just horrible and disgusting ! but christians put it up next to everywhere, even around their necks...do they really think if jesus ever comes back, he wants to see a fucking cross?
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"God has no religion!" (Gandhi)
Erik van Thom
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Original von Marko_Jadranovic.OP

The reason is, that I don't understand, why anyone should adore 5 or 10 little gods out of thousands and not one great God instead of thousands of little gods.

Well, human beings have a lot of attributes: love, anger, artistic interest, fertility etc - and all of them are devine! Why not make out Gods for each of them? Imho it's easier to identify to many Gods representing one specific part of human nature than to one who is literally "everything" - and therewith "nothing"!
(But may everybody believe in what makes her or him happy; I'm absolutely certain it's allright. Zwinker )

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But as things are, I rather think that we all descend from 'Adam and Eve' who lived about 150.000 years ago in East Africa, and whome your atheistic forefathers certainly knew all about already at the times of Jesus Christ.

Ever heard of the missing link theory? I'm sure you have, how do you harmonise this Adam and Eve stuff with that?


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I just laugh at those atheists and polytheists, who, on one side, keep Trinity for polytheism, but one the other side take part of internet forums by using 3 different nicks - and nevertheless think that they are only one real person.

What about the rest?


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I believe that Allah is one of the names of Abrahams God, who led Israel out of Egypt and saved Haggar and Ismael from dying in the desert.
Besides this, I feel that the death of all first-borns in Egypt (wether you take it literally or not) was something so horrible, that man by no means should intend to repeate it.

The thing is, not men did it but "God"; so men couldn't "repeat" it, even if they wanted; because men never did it, according to that particular faith.

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What is up to you: do you like atrocities?

In aesthetic horror movies, why not...


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I really beg your pardon! I never would have laughed about it if I had known, that you believe in monkeys, bulls and crocodiles!

It's believing that everything that lives will be born again, but not necessarily as a human being but possibly as another life form. There is nothing wrong with that kind of faith.


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O dear - I really wasn't aware about that, nore is the Pope. Now I am afraid that we are heretics and will go to hell.

So unbelievers won't go to hell then? Hey, that's rather liberal...


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, history, geology, biology and physics have already proved the inexistence of God! It seems as if these atheistic scientists all hide their exciting discoveries. So would you please tell poor me who they are, so that I could ask them for their secret arguments?

What are your arguments against crocodile Gods?

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I am sure of a "success rate" of 100 %. The secret may be, that opposite to materialists I don't ask for money, comfort or a new car.

You prayers are answered? 100%? Cool, it must have something to do with the prayers...


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I admit that I'm still learning.
So, Erudite, why don't you teach me more?

What are you particularily interested in? Church history?
Marko_Jadranovic.OP
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no sweet-talking christian will ever convince me that the ancient torture-instument with that ugly dead body pinned to it is a symbol of divine love

To me it's not a dead body, but a suffering man, looking down from the cross all ower the world, full of pity, understanding everything.
http://www.wga.hu/art/d/donatell/2_matur...va/1cruci_p.jpg

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...do they really think if jesus ever comes back, he wants to see a cross?

(I' ll try to translate: ) "...Then I saw a new Heaven and a new earth. I saw the holy town Jerusalem like a bride, who dressed herself for her bridegroom. Then I heared a loud voice shouting: "...He will wipe all tears from their eyes, and there will be no more death, no sorrow, no pain and no sorrow..." (Ap.21, 1-4)

That's why I believe, that there will not be any more cross for anybody.




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Original von Erik van Thom
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But as things are, I rather think that we all descend from 'Adam and Eve' who lived about 150.000 years ago in East Africa, and whome your atheistic forefathers certainly knew all about already at the times of Jesus Christ.

Ever heard of the missing link theory? I'm sure you have, how do you harmonise this Adam and Eve stuff with that?

What missing link do you mean?
I didn't talk about Lucy. Concerning her, noboby seems to be sure, wether she belongs to our antecessors or not, and there may severals links be missing between her and us.

But Lucy lived about 3 (?) million years ago and has very little to do with those human beings, which I called 'Adam and Eve'.

Concerning them, I am convinced, that all men are linked with that small tribe of early men, that in only few individuals lived in East Africa, which by wonder survived, and then spread over all the earth.

Maybe science one day will find out, that this theory is wrong. You never know.

Nevertheless I think that it would be just superstition to believe, that mankind some day dropped down to all continents, in tousands or millions of perfect modern Homo sapiens-individuals, without being linked with those 150.000 years old 'people' in Africa.

So, what's wrong with 'Adam and Eve'? Perhaps, that they most probably were black? I' m sure, you don't mean that.


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Original von Erik van Thom
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O dear - I really wasn't aware about that, nore is the Pope. Now I am afraid that we are heretics and will go to hell.

So unbelievers won't go to hell then? Hey, that's rather liberal...

We didn't diskuss about unbelievers, but about believers who do not believe the same as I do.


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Original von Erik van Thom
What are your arguments against crocodile Gods?

What are your arguments for the adoration of a crocodile?


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Original von Erik van Thom
What are you particularily interested in? Church history?

In almoust everything, except platitudes of such kind as I read in some other threads.
Erik van Thom
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Original von Marko_Jadranovic.OP
So, what's wrong with 'Adam and Eve'? Perhaps, that they most probably were black? I' m sure, you don't mean that.


What's wrong with "Adam and Eve" is not the colour of their skin but that they fell from grace and were abonded from paradise because they ate from the "tree of cognition" (or 'gnosis', not sure what it's in English).


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We didn't diskuss about unbelievers, but about believers who do not believe the same as I do.


Talking about "unbelievers" necessarily includes immanently talking about "believers" and the other way round.

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What are your arguments for the adoration of a crocodile?


The adoration of a crocodile or a cow or a fly is the adoration about life in itself and free from any arrogance or chauvinism. In addition to that I refere to statements I've alreadily posted.


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In almoust everything, except platitudes of such kind as I read in some other threads.


So does this mean you ARE interested? Zwinker What is your favorite aeon?
Marko_Jadranovic.OP
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Original von Marko_Jadranovic.OP
So, what's wrong with 'Adam and Eve'? ...

What's wrong with "Adam and Eve" is...that ...they ate from the "tree of cognition" ...?

Oh, that's right.
tree of gnosis *gg*! It's the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

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Original von Marko_Jadranovic.OP
What are your arguments for the adoration of a crocodile?

The adoration of a crocodile or a cow or a fly is the adoration about life in itself

That is not quite right. The adoration of a crocodile is not the adoration of life itself, but of only one aspect of life itself.

Bigger than one aspect of life is the whole of life.
Bigger than the whole of life ist the whole of creation.
Bigger than the whole of creation is the Creator, who created the crocodile and us.

I perfer to worship the Creator; but I don't deny the possibility, that the Lord God might have mercy with those, who search for Him in His creature.


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So does this mean you ARE interested?

I think we already started discussing?

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What is your favorite aeon?

It must not necessarily be an aeon. I am modest. But how about giving me some more informations about the very moment of 'Big Bang' , and the fact that the Lord God had nothing to do with it?.
Erik van Thom
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Original von Marko_Jadranovic.OP
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Original von Marko_Jadranovic.OP
So, what's wrong with 'Adam and Eve'? ...

What's wrong with "Adam and Eve" is...that ...they ate from the "tree of cognition" ...?

Oh, that's right.
tree of gnosis *gg*! It's the tree of the knowledge of good and evil


And they were punished for that and outcasted from paradise because after eating the apple they knew something that was not intended for them.
I believe that this is a rather totalitarian approach, isn't it? What people are allowed to know is incumbent upon a caste of priests teaching banishment for disobediance?


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I perfer to worship the Creator; but I don't deny the possibility, that the Lord God might have mercy with those, who search for Him in His creature.


Or Hers. Or Its. Or Their. How do you know that God has a gender? And that he has a son? Does he also have a wife?

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So does this mean you ARE interested?

I think we already started discussing?

But not about Church history, have we?

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What is your favorite aeon?

It must not necessarily be an aeon. I am modest. But how about giving me some more informations about the very moment of 'Big Bang' , and the fact that the Lord God had nothing to do with it?.

Isn't somebody who doesn't know something and is aware of that wiser than somebody who doesn't know something as well - but believes he knows?

By the way, the idea of an unmoved mover (and beeing a follower of it) doesn't necessarily make one a Christian. And it's not the fault of Aristoteles that christians have tried to convert him posthumously.
Marko_Jadranovic.OP
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Original von Erik van Thom
Or Hers. Or Its. Or Their. How do you know that God has a gender?....

Oh, has He? Did He really generate man/woman?

By the way, when God incarnated, He somehow had to decide wether He would get born as a girl or a boy, hadn't he?
At the times of Jesus Christ it might have been a little bit easier, to preach being a male rabbi , instead of being some jewish housewife. But I am sure that, wether the Lord God would have incarnated nowadays, He would have been politically correct, and so He would have become a woman, preaching that GodDess will have mercy with all those blockheads, who call Her/Him their father.

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By the way, the idea of an unmoved mover (and beeing a follower of it) doesn't necessarily make one a Christian.

Fancy! That sets me thinking!

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Original von Erik van Thom
And they [Adam and Eve] were punished for that and outcasted from paradise because after eating the apple they knew something that was not intended for them.

That is a really interesting aspekt. Don't forget, that Adam and Eve did have the possibilty to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil - as distiguished from the crocodile and the flie!

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Original von Erik van Thom
I believe that this is a rather totalitarian approach, isn't it?

I don't think so.
First, we should agree that there is an difference between divine omnipotence and human totalitarianism, shouldn't we?
Second, if God was totalitarian (in a figurative human sense), He (She / It) would easily have hindered Adam an Eve from eating the fruit. But He didn't. Adam and Eve 'in fact' were free to get that knowledge of good and bad. They were free to be obey or to oppose.
What do you want? Do you dream of decisions without consequences?


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Original von Marko_Jadranovic.OP I think we already started discussing?

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Original von Erik van Thom But not about Church history, have we?

Well, if you want to tell me something about the history of Christianity, please do so; but it could perhaps be a waste of effort, as I should know more about this subject than about many others.


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Isn't somebody who doesn't know something and is aware of that wiser than somebody who doesn't know something as well - but believes he knows?

He who tries to know as much as he can, and who knows that knowledge can as well be the knowledge of science, of heart and of faith, without mixing up these knowledges, isn't he wiser that both the others?
schmaexx
Well,
I love it. It's a great piece of humor and if u can't stand this, well, then you're obviously not up to the task of being a religious person. Because faith and believing simply means defending you're (unverifiable) beliefs against people, who don't share this belief with you.

And it's quite undeniable, that the bible has a lot of "fairy-tale" stuff in it and some wannabe-christians really have no clue about their religion.

You shouldn't let this little bit of humor keep you away from your religion of choice.

So keep it easy, and keep it real!

Regards
Erik van Thom
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Original von Marko_Jadranovic.OP
Well, if you want to tell me [...] it could perhaps be a waste of effort

That's a good catchword! Persuaded!

Have fun and enjoy the forum.
Erik
Marko_Jadranovic.OP
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Original von schmaexx
I love it. It's a great piece of humor and if u can't stand this, well, then you're obviously not up to the task of being a religious person.


Pardon me - I missed to use smilies, so that you couldn't see me laughing.

Isn't it funny:
Christianity is, when you take the earth for a pancake.
Faith and believing simply means defending you're (unverifiable) beliefs against people.

*lol*
No better way than such simplicity, to make a fool of oneself...


But supposed that I was really not up to the mark of my tasks as a religious: Why do you worry? Is it your business?

Probably you want your antagonist to be more ingenious.
Believe me: sometimes I feel the same way.


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Original von Erik van Thom
Have fun and enjoy the forum.

Thanks. The same to you.
schmaexx
Dear Marko,
my (utterly) stupid comment was referring to Toschys comment about this (oh my god, i still think its a great piece of humor) great piece of humor, who said it's narrow minded.


Well, it's obviously (although science has made good progress) still unverifiable, that god exists. And that if that god exists, he/she/it created the earth within 7 days.

Or that the bible is telling facts.

Or that the church is telling the truth about how you're buying the ticket for heaven.

I'm horribly sorry if I gave you the impression, that I'm not respecting religious people.
I do respect them. But still they can't proove, that what they're believing in really "exists".

And being a CDU-politician simply means defending all you beliefs against all the people, who think you're talking rubbish (e.g. SPD).
Well, the same goes for christians, so it wasn't any kind of insult, it just means "chill out and take it easy".

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But supposed that I was really not up to the mark of my tasks as a religious: Why do you worry? It it your business?

I really (and believe Zwinker me, I mean it) don't care, if you're up to the task.

But as it seems, you're not only defending, but aggressively attacking other people in the name of religion.

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Probably you want your antagonist to be more ingenious.

I'm horribly sorry that I was not up to the task of fulfilling your high expectations!!! motz


I just wanted to say, that I like this joke, and that I can't see, why there's so much complaints.

Have fun and enjoy the forum (and while you're on it, share some wisdom with me)

Regards,
the fool
Marko_Jadranovic.OP
Dear schmaexx!

Thanks for the correction. I see that I was mistaken in referring these apparently injuring words to me.

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And that if that god exists, he/she/it created the earth within 7 days.

But why in all the world do you think so?
Do you really believe that Christians generally interpret the Genesis literally (as Reini does)? This is definitely not so!

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Well, it's obviously still unverifiable, that god exists...
But still they can't proove, that what they're believing in really "exists".

That could come true.
But mind that we dont't believe opposite to science, but beyond science.

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But as it seems, you're not only defending, but aggressively attacking other people in the name of religion.

Am I really?


Peace!
schmaexx
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And that if that god exists, he/she/it created the earth within 7 days.

But why in all the world do you think so?
Do you really believe that Christians generally interpret the Genesis literally (as Reini does)? This is definitely not so!

It's a question of credibility you see. If you say, this is a myth, then why would it be different with other things, even those things that are the basis of christian and jewish belief.

And you wouldn't believe how many people are actually buying stuff like this as "facts"!
It's not only a christian problem, look at the muslim extremists, or the radical christians in America (and they do think, believe is the opposite of science).

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Am I really?
Just like you did before, I forgot to make a smilie.

I'm a nice guy!!!

Greetz
Marko_Jadranovic.OP
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Original von Marko_Jadranovic.OP
Do you really believe that Christians generally interpret the Genesis literally (as Reini does)? This is definitely not so!

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Original von schmaexx
It's a question of credibility you see. If you say, this is a myth, then why would it be different with other things, even those things that are the basis of christian and jewish belief.

'Myth' is not the right word, and nor is 'fairy-tale'.
You see, the Holy Bible is full of allegories, emblems and parabels, that want to be understood, and partly you even fail to understand the text by taking it literally.
There is often a lectio facilior (easier reading) and lectio difficilior (more difficult reading) for the same text - and none of these two readings could be called really false.

The suitable lectio depends of the reader's (or listeners) accomplishments.
I already mentioned my grandparents, who were plain and pious people.
If anybody had told them anything about nuclear physics in connection with the creation of the universe, or of Homo habilis in connection with the creation of mankind, they wouldn't have believed that. And if anybody had told them, that they had to take Darwin and the Big Bang for granted, otherwise they would not understand the creation, they would have said, that in this case they dont't understand the Creator and that they must take the whole Bible for a lie.

It's a very similar thing with the Pope and a farmer of Iowa (to take them as examples of a great intellectual difference).
The farmer of Iowa (not each of them, but the ones that I am thinking of) wouldn't understand nuclear physics and the lectio difficilior.
Should we tell them, that first of all they had to finish their college studies, and afterwards they might get baptised and be allowed to believe in the Lord God?

It's principly okay, that many believers read the Holy Bible in a very simple way, because they are not capable to read it in another way.
But they get dangerous, whenever they say, that this was the only way of reading, and anything else was heretic and forbidden- and when they intend to forbid science as a 'weapon against God'.

I say it again: God gave us our brain and our soul in order to make use of both.
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Original von schmaexx
I'm a nice guy!!!

No doubt. ;-)
schmaexx
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'Myth' is not the right word, and nor is 'fairy-tale'.

I guess it isn't. But i couldn't think of any better word. You see, the bible is so mixed with different stories (especially the Old Testament), myths, fairy tales that I thought, it might be a good word.

A myth has some truth in it, and I think so does the bible.

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You see, the Holy Bible is full of allegories, emblems and parabels, that want to be understood, and partly you even fail to understand the text by taking it literally.

I agree. The problem is, that in a organized religion, someone has to decide, what's "true".

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It's a very similar thing with the Pope and a farmer of Iowa (to take them as examples of a great intellectual difference).
The farmer of Iowa (not each of them, but the ones that I am thinking of) wouldn't understand nuclear physics and the lectio difficilior.
Should we tell them, that first of all they had to finish their college studies, and afterwards they might get baptised and be allowed to believe in the Lord God?


No, they don't have to study nuclear physics.

You start your argumentation under the condition, that there is a true interpretation of the bible. Is there one at all?

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I say it again: God gave us our brain and our soul in order to make use of both.

That's why I say, God can't be mad at me for not believing in him, because I used it (doesn't mean, that all believers are stupid, really). It's just I came to that conclusion.

The point is, if it's all a matter of interpretation, who is the one to pick the right one??? Isn't a religion then a very individual thing, which can't work in a group???